Don’t Be That Activist

In an attempt to drive up more publicity A Voice For Men (AVFM) has posted the following captioned picture on their site.

Image

It’s designed to bring attention to the problem of false rape accusations.

There have been a number of reactions to this piece of marketing designed to promote the AVFM message.  Powerful imagery with a simple (and thus rather vague) statement that leaves it entirely up to the viewer just what they take away from it.  It’s a fine example of political advertising.

Rather than respond with words I’ve decided to respond to their captioned picture with one of my own.

 Here it is.

Image

Interestingly enough I’d originally gone with this version;

Image

Which while I found to be equally effective it didn’t have quite the same impact as my above image (as a response to the AVFM captioned picture).

Can you spot the difference and say why?

Follow me on;

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTruePooka

https://www.facebook.com/thetruepooka

https://twitter.com/TheTruePooka

Image brought to my attention by:

http://unitewomen.org/

On their facebook

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=514816245246586&set=a.302468136481399.68437.302448176483395&type=1&theater

Creators of the Original “Don’t Be That Girl” image. ***Note:  I’ve received a confirmation from  an AVFM staff member regarding a comment that states they did not create  the “Don’t Be That Girl” image.***

http://www.avoiceformen.com/

edited may 14 2013 to correct link

39 thoughts on “Don’t Be That Activist

  1. Yep! For those that haven’t caught it yet, the AVFM ad uses the diminutive term “girl,” thus “Don’t be that BOY” (emphasis added) rather than “Don’t be that GUY” and therein matching the diminutive form.

  2. Because of the demeaning implications of the word ‘girl’ used in the original.

    I’d like to see both the original and adapted neutralized in that respect and given publicity as a single concept.

    • Funny you should say that. I was just having a conversation about how while the word “guy” clearly means “male” in this case, the word “guy” has a possibly more neutral impact because in certain circumstances it is gender non-specific.

      It makes for a rather interesting quirk in the American language that has some interesting implications.

      • One of the topics I’ve seen discussed in masculist conversations is the notion that “manhood” is a status granted by society (hence the phrases “real man”, “mensch”, “manboy”, and “manchild”) whereas to be a “woman”, one merely has to the right sex and age. If this is the case, then there is considerably more stigma attached to the word “boy” than the word “girl”, and your wordplay is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. Also, if this is the case, “Guy” is actually a progressive term for men, because it indicates a gender without qualifying it with an earned status.

        Incidentally, I don’t believe the image you credit to avoiceformen originated there- I believe it was created in response to this campaign (http://www.theviolencestopshere.ca/dbtg.php)

      • Funnily, Ellenbeth – I”VE heard the term “Ladies” used to address a group exclusively of men to get their attention. It was the Military. They were leaving for a combat zone. I’ll bet groups of women are called “guys” to get their attention when leaving for combat zones.

  3. Amusing people zooming in in “girl.” I somehow suspect if it had been “that woman” it would have also been considered scandalously sexist.

    A few points you may have wanted to mention: those particular ads are in response to existing ad campaigns in various parts of the country that already demonize men and tell them not to rape, and which equate drunk sex with rape.

    The ad also of course completely ignores the much greater sexism in the entire thing, which is that if a woman has sex with a drunk men, gender ideologues as a rule will not consider that rape, but if a man has sex with a drunk woman that’s considered rape, and if they’re both drunk, he’s still a rapist and she’s not.

    We know of course that men being made to penetrate women in coercive sex acts is about as common as women being penetrated in coercive sex acts; multiple studies show this. The demonization of males in the current climate doesn’t just go to false rape allegations in the form of “regret rape,” it also goes to the reality that people consider it impossible for a woman to rape with her vagina, even though that’s nonsense and is in fact about as common as men using their penises that way (references available upon request).

    In any case, to summarize: the ad is in response to pre-existing sexist, misandrist ads, and is meant to jar people into rethinking their sexist notions. The actual issue requires discussing like adults, which very few people are willing to do outside the “man dangerous/woman victim” delusion.

  4. For those interested, in point of fact we did not create the poster you are examining here, Pookah.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/time-to-ditch-the-rape-advocates/

    Also, to further clarify, it is worth noting that whoever did do that poster (which we support, by the way) was in fact doing it specifically in response to these posters put up by this group:

    http://www.theviolencestopshere.ca/dbtg.php

    As I said, we didn’t create the poster, but we don’t care since we support them anyway.

    False rape allegations (including “regret rape” and “we were really drunk and I wish I hadn’t slept with him, omigod it’s rape!”) are a hideous form of abuse that are arguably as bad as rape, IF NOT WORSE. The frequently asserted claim that false rape claims are “rare” should be challenged; even one man whose life is ruined forever, losing career, home, family, behind bars, and having a felony conviction and Registered Sex Offender status and virtually unhirable for anything but the most low-wage jobs for the rest of his life should be viewed as being every bit as bad as being raped IF NOT WORSE, no matter how often it happens.

    Although there are better statistics on this matter than the ludicrous “2% of claims are false” figure (which has no real basis in anything statistically valid), and I can provide peer reviewed and publicly available literature that gives more realistic answers. But no matter how common, we should be ready to condemn swiftly, with legal consequences, anyone who lies about rape… and yes, waking up next to a guy you were busy getting drunk with and saying “oh my God what did I do?” isn’t rape. Unless you are prepared to accept that if you slept with a drunk guy you raped him, anyway. Or you have serious evidence that he drugged you (and by the way, women drug men to force them into sex too, but no one talks about that).

    Mind you, if the Women Unite (or is it Unite Women?) will accept that IF A WOMAN HAS SEX WITH A DRUNK MAN SHE IS A RAPIST, they will at least be consistent and I will have more respect for them. I predict they will not do this.

    In fact, I don’t expect “Unite Women” to discuss any of these thing in a fair-minded or decent way. Long-term experience with feminist groups who speak on these matters shows that they will not debate, they will not discuss, they will only demonize and/or play “damsel in distress,” condemn, using shaming language, or refuse to address the issues with facts (which, to my non-surprise, is exactly what we’re seeing so far in this thread).

    I otherwise note, again, that if the poster had said “Don’t be that woman,” people would be harping on his for being sexist since “that woman!” is sexist in their eyes. So “that woman” or “that girl” will get you accused of sexism no matter what. Which is another problem with modern feminists; they get to declare anything sexist they want, without anyone getting to question them.

  5. Seniors in my country refer to themselves as “boy” and “girl”. Or they might go for a night out “with the girls” or “with the boys”. If the word girl/boy is somehow demeaning then there must be a lot of people out there basically hating on themselves and thier frends.

  6. “Guy” refers to a young adult male. “Gal” is the corresponding gender reference for a young women. I’m sure “Don’t be that Girl” wasn’t meant to demean an adult women anymore than “Don’t be that Gal” would “neutralize” the message. In this context, “Gal” would just sound… goofy.

  7. I think it is time for a “Don’t be that Pooka” meme. Seriously? Girl vs Woman? I guess Madonna was a misogynist for doing “Material Girl” And we should have heard “Women Just Want to Have Fun” from the female demeaning Cyndi Lauper.

    Sorry dude, guy, boy, man, or whatever offends and hurts your feelings the least, you are being completely myopic and missing the point on a grander scale than I originally thought was possible.

    No wonder the MHRM is growing so rapidly. People are starving for intelligence in the wasteland.

    • I for one am grateful to Pookah for bringing the issue up and for being willing to allow us to say something. All he did was make a comment about language usage in an advertisement and observe its effects from a marketing perspective.

      True to my prediction, though, I notice none of the self-described feminists have bothered to respond to what we say: that false rape allegations are real and life-destroying. That male rape victims and female predators are routinely marginalized by a cultural narrative that infantalizes women and demonizes men.

      Shouldn’t any sane liberal-minded person say “putting innocent men behind bars is a crime against humanity?” Are all men Tom Robinson now? Is Atticus Finch dead?

      If you truly believe that false rape allegations hurt real victims, then you should be out there screaming as loudly as possible about it when it happens–and you should definitely NOT repeat Susan Brownmillers’s 40 year old and completely debunked claim that only 2% of rape allegations are false. While real numbers on that are still somewhat hard to pin down, there are a number of studies that show, depending on how you ask the question, substantially more than that, and none (absolutely none, zero) to back up the preposterous 2% claim, which is an outright fabrication with no empirical data behind it at all.

      I would like to be proven wrong and to see people like those behind “UniteWomen” enter this discussion on a rational, adult level, acknowledging forthrightly the devastating, life-destroying effects of false allegations, address the double-standards of saying that if two people are drunk and either of them regrets it in the morning only the one with the penis is a rapist, address the reality of female sex predators, address the problem of Presumption of Guilt as opposed to Presumption of Innocence, and talk about all of this like adults. Many years of experience by me and my cohorts has found that a vain hope, but I would very much like to see a change in that in my lifetime.

      Thank you Pookah for helping to address this complex issue like an adult.

    • It seems you’re jumping to conclusions again.

      Unless you can point to exactly in this blog post where I made any sort of negative statement or condemnation about the different usages of “girl” vs “boy” vs “guy”…?

    • No offense mate but you absolutely missed the point of this article because of your singular obsession with finding any flaw you can find that you can assign the ghost of feminism to.

      You missed out that this article was an examination of tactics in politics and activism.

      You essentially fell for exactly the same trap that you attempted to lay out with your use of the original picture, despite the fact I all but sent Dean a message warning him of what I was doing.

      You continue to amaze me with your simplistic view on the world and your inability to even begin to approach anything with any degree of complexity.

      • I assure you no offense is taken.

        And I am happy to keep you amazed, but I am not buying that your comment is any more relevant than the OP.

        I simply made reference to the fact that the core of your post was semantic quicksand. I didn’t say you said anything negative about the use of “girl” vs “boy” or “guy.” I just asserted the idea that this kind of distinction, given the intent of the meme, is pretty pointless. It had the impressive effect of eliciting comments like this:

        “Yep! For those that haven’t caught it yet, the AVFM ad uses the diminutive term “girl,” thus “Don’t be that BOY” (emphasis added) rather than “Don’t be that GUY” and therein matching the diminutive form.”

        Wow. And then you follow that up with inviting me and at least one other person to point you to a value judgment about girl vs boy or guy.

        What at least some people are telling you, or are at least trying to, is that you engaging in some rather mindless triviality, whether you made a value judgement or not.

        It is amusing to me that you have so completely over simplified an inane aspect of the intended message, yet you pretend amazement that I am being simplistic.

        Maybe the problem here is you being too easily amazed.

  8. Be That Activist!

    The whole premise of this blog post is wrong given that the ideas behind the image were not researched, and all that can be done in its place is nit pick over a triviality. Next time please do your homework before coming down on the feminist propaganda side of things like most other people do because they are too lazy or stupid to know what is really going on.

  9. Im not sure if this is a joke or what, false rape accusations are a serious issue. Its not the “Boys” fault for the women having to many drinks, She agreed to having sex so why does that make the man the rapist?

  10. You use “doesn’t” and “Wasn’t” in the same sentence that makes no sense in English terms, you hag

  11. Feminism is a load of bullshit aimed at “Empowering Women” but all it does is make women believe that they are worthless and need to be active to change things. Men and women are equal, schooling and opportunites for advancement are allowed for both men and women. But to force women to believe that they are unequal and worthless makes feminist anti-women.

  12. Imma beat the hell outta my wife if she ever believes this garbage. And i dont wants none of you bitches tell me otherwise. She my wife and my property so i can beat her whenever I want

    • Just out of curiosity, have you ever in your life actually encountered a man who behaves that way or says things like that in anything other than a jokey fashion?

      • Such a simplistic view you have Dean, I think he is joking on the uniformed stereotype that feminist believe all men display. I laugh at your uninformity

      • Yeah, well, despite literally decades of research across hundreds of studies that all show that women are as violent (maybe even more violent) than men are in domestic relationships, we still live with that stereotype. Which diminishes men and women alike, in different ways. Thus I often just ask people if they’ve ever met anyone who actually behaves that way. A “yes” answer is extremely rare, and that’s probably because men who act like that are also extremely rare.

      • Oh, Dean. I just dont know where to begin. You seem like a fairly intelligent person, so I can’t imagine why you subjugate yourself to asking such ridiculous rhetorical questions. You need to look deeper, ask yourself what exactly the author is trying to satire first before jumping to such unintelligent questions

      • It was simply a yes or no question that only needs a yes or no response. Has the author ever met such a person or not? My bet is “no.”

      • Its really not “simple”, for someone who is empty headed it might seem a simple question yes. But the intelligent person could tell that this comment is full of genuine thought and contrast based on his (im assuming) own life. He’s using the brutality of a males image in contrast to the open brainwashing done by feminist organizations. He is questioning the social norms of the feminism movement. His comment is nothing short of groundbreaking and genius

      • Ah, I see. So he was not a male-bashing troll accusing men’s advocates of being violent, he was a clever person who recognizes that violent and abusive women are at least as common as violent and abusive men, and was making a sarcastic point to illustrate that.

        I submit what’s really going on here is a subtle variation of Poe’s Law, namely, it’s obviously a joke but it’s entirely unclear which direction the joke cuts in. Which by the way, to those paying attention, it still isn’t. But perhaps that makes it a most particularly clever trolling.

      • It was my intention to follow up with a blog post or video discussing advertising & marketing tactics. I know that may seem deathly boring to some of you but since it’s part of what I do for a living I (and others like me) find it interesting.

        I would have liked to have gotten more response from both sides since if I reference specific comments as of right now it will be very difficult to do that and make it not appear like it’s directed at your main AVFM representative.

        But that has more to do with you and your site’s staff/ readers graciously coming to my blog and commenting here while for better or worse I don’t get a lot of play amongst the feminist bloggers/ tubers.

  13. Women drinking too much have to live with the consequences that come along with the drinking. If sex is one of those, so be it.

    • You say that as if sex is something that simply happens, without any conscious decision by the man involved. There’s no logical chain of consequences that leads from alcohol to sex without involving the decision of someone else to have sex with them, too.
      What I’m hearing when you phrase it like this is “women should take responsibility for their actions so I don’t have to feel responsible for mine”.

      What on earth is wrong with erring on the side of not raping, and either finding someone less drunk or waiting until the other person (I say person, because as far as I’m concerned this really goes for everybody regardless of gender) *isn’t* completely sloshed anymore?

      If they’re still down for sex, you probably get better sex than you’d get dead drunk; if they’re not, you dodged the bullet of having sex with someone who *doesn’t actually want to have sex with you when they’re in full control of their faculties*.
      That’s a win-win, I’d say.

  14. @Paul Elam (@AVoiceForMen)

    You’re no longer amazing me. From now on I’m going to just accept that poor judgement, shoddy reasoning and simplistic responses is the status quo from you.

    You said;

    “Sorry dude, guy, boy, man, or whatever offends and hurts your feelings the least, you are being completely myopic and missing the point on a grander scale than I originally thought was possible.”

    And thus mistakenly assumed that this was the whole point of this post.

    You ignored the initial comments that were the body of the blog post and focused on what you felt was important due to your own incredibly slanted bias.

    You also attempt to characterize the exchange I had in the comments section as some sort of intense examination of the wrongness of use of words. It was a discussion on how people react to language; that’s it.

    The fact that you find examination of use of language to be trivial actually explains a lot about your style of writing. You use grandiose language, heavy trigger words and exaggerated claims when approaching topics.

    I thought it was deliberate but that admission shows you’re just hamfisted and don’t give a crap about accuracy.

    My intent was to use the exact same tactic you did as a response to your initial use of the picture.

    So by accusing the blog post (Which is really just the posting of a similar styled picture in response to a picture) of triviality, you’ve effectively accused your site (AVFM) of triviality as well.

    Which means you just made my point for me.

    The difference is I was approaching the two pictures from the perspective of someone examining marketing & advertising impact.

    I’m guessing you’re just too ignorant in those areas to catch that – no shame in that, lack of experience or lack of education in an area does that to everyone.

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